Penthouse Interview With Lucy
Transcribed by Petra de Jong
Here's part I and 2 of the interview (I will post the rest tomorrow). Translated from Dutch and reprinted without permission:
Her adventures as Xena, Warrior Princess, have made her the heroine of American lesbians, and the masturbation fantasy of countless boys. A leather-clad cyber-babe from a mythical era, with the aura of a wargoddess. No man can handle her. And her mate is a naieve young woman. In Penthouse, the new queen of television, Lucy Lawless.
P: I heard your instant fame makes you nervous every now and then.
L: Only at the beginning I had to get used to be in the centre of attention.
P: And now?
L: I've learned to live with it. Even if I have to give 30 interviews a day, or sign 5000 autographs, I know I can handle it.
P: When did you realize that?
L: I roamed through the valley of despair and did not fear disaster. On the seventh day of my journey, after crossing seven bridges....Why are you rolling your eyes?
P: Your PR man promised me you would be serious.
L: If I had to take the circus around my person seriously I would be scared to death that every interview would uncover my darkest secrets.
P. I understand. You, as a Hollywood star, has learned the art of lying.
L: No. But I did learn to give evasive answers, which obscure the truth, without being a lie. I've also learned that I can make a complete fool of myself, without hurting my career.
P: Give an example
L: During a public ceremony I wore a strapless dress, which slipped down. Because of that all of a sudden my nipples were hot items on the evening news and on the covers of the scandal papers.
P: That was on May 6, when you sang the national anthem before the ice hockey game.
L: And when I raised my right arm it happened. You have no idea how painful that was to me. Many honorary citizins got worked up over it. In their eyes I've scandalized the flag.
P: That's what you get when a New Zealander sings the American anthem
L: I don't care about patriotism. I think there are much more important things in our society to be proud of.
P: Are you prudish?
L: Not really. If I get naked I'd like to choose the event and the audience myself. I can now laugh about what happened. But not when it happened. The American press sank me. Fortunately my fans stayed loyal.
P: How do you feel about you being a role model for little girls, strong women, lesbians and transvestites?
L: I feel a lot better since I realized that fans aren't trying to be exactly like Lucy Lawless. Otherwise I would've been responsible for the lives of thousands of people.
P: But they want to be like Xena.
L: That's not entirely true. Xena is a woman who stands up against enemies and difficult situations in each and every episode. She's a woman who never gives up, who values friendship and who lives live without compromising. Those character traits fascinates my fans.
P: It sounds like you don't want to be a role model.
L: Perhaps. I find it difficult enough to be a model for my 8-year-old daughter Daisy.
P: Do you have idols?
L: I think Susan Sarandon is a strong woman. She's the proof that an actress can age with style. Madonna has also been an influence to me.
P: Madonna's dresses always stay on
L: Are you trying to provoke me? You're not that stupid are you?
P: Sometimes I get interesting answers to stupid questions
L: That I can believe. About Madonna: I respect her. The men surrounding her, she...
P: controls?
L: Maybe. All in all, she's attained a position in our culture, no other woman has ever had. I don't think anyone will be able to copy that.
P: You maybe?
L: Perhaps. I used to be second choice. It's because the original Xena (Vanessa Angel) fell ill that I got the chance to show them what I could do. And ever since I keep proving that I can do more than..
P: ..men expect of you.
L: Not just men.
P: I read that you divorced your husband because he was standing in the way of your career.
L: Gary and I are divorced because of other reasons. After that my career did speed up though.
P: The divorce, was it traumatic to you?
L: The divorce was necessary. Daisy didn't understand a thing about it. She's had a tough time. I had to play the evil game with a sense of humour.
P: What do you mean?
L: I haven't said anything bad about Gary when my daughter was around, even though I could really kill him every now and then. He could kill me verbally. I hate to be a victim, without being able to do something about it.
P: Why did you tolerate the terror?
L: To save Daisy. I wanted to keep her out of it. I didn't want to make her an ally or referee.
P: But sooner or later one has to choose sides.
L: I wish it would be later. An 8-year-old girl needs her father. I just couldn't disrupt that.
P: You're still living with her in New Zealand. What does she think about Xena?
L: Daisy thought at first that I'd sacrificed our family to become a star. The first year she refused to watch it on tv or come to the set.
P: When did that change?
L: When her friends in school started talking about it and Daisy realized that her mother was kinda cool.
P: Wouldn't you like to have your daughter with you all the time?
L: I would like many things. I'm very glad that I can see her more then just during weekends. That way I've attained the chance to be a mother.
P: Attained or fought?
L: Not fought because there weren't any injuries or deaths. I've literally attained the mother-right, there's nothing more precious in my life.
P: You describe yourself as an outsider. What do you mean by that?
L: That I strive for independence. That I'd like to be my own master.
P: But?
L: Sooner and later we all have to compromise and swallow the bitter pill.
P: And you have a problem with that?
L: I sure have. I think that's why I loose myself in the role. Xena gives me a chance to use a part of my personality that would not be accepted in society.
P: I think that's why your fans love Xena.
L: Perhaps. I can't and won't speak for my fans. But I think that Xena - just like Tarzan, Hercules and all the other imaginary figures from our collective subsconscious - fills a need, that is simply being ignored by our civilized society.
P: And how do you feel, as helsman for a frustrated society?
L: I feel really good. I could be modest, but let's be honest. I'm very happy to serve as an example for frustrated men and women, who can relax once a week by watching Xena.
P: But then again, that's what you get well paid for..
L: In showbizz there are people who earn lots more. But you're right. I've got a great life. Much better in example then the actress who gets a little role in a tv show every now and then. And much better then those women who are working in my ex-husband's bar.
P: That sounds arrogant..
L: I didn't mean it like that. I'm not better then other actresses per se.
P: But you've planned it better.
L: That's true. But I just don't know what I've done to deserve this. I do know that I've never settled for a compromise in my life, ever.
P: Do you think you've got talent?
L: We all have at least one talent. The question is not what talent but what you do with it.
P: And what if one doesn't reconize that talent?
L: That's what happened to me, almost. I once seriously thought about becoming an opera singer. The tragedy in life is that we settle to easily for compromises in our jobs, our relationships, our spiritual life.
P: But once we will reconsider..
L: Exactly. If you settle for compromises you'll never be happy. How could you enjoy life if you settle for less then the best?
P: That wisdom could be traced back to the Hercules period, when the legend of Xena started.
L: I think that Xena's popularity stems from this philosophy of life.
P: That could be true but if all people lived like that our civilized society would be...
L: A lot more exciting. I'm one of those non-conformists whose own satisfaction is more important than the survival of a fellow human being. It sounds hard and unfair but if I look back at my life, then I have to admit that I'm an egoist in the bottom of my heart.
P: Jack Nicholson once told me that every succesful actor has to be an egoist to practise their profession.
L: He could be right. And I think many men, women and children think the same. Xena holds her own in a society that's based on Darwin's laws.
P: A critic once called Hercules and Xena Fascist.
L: Xena is too independent to be part of a movement. So am I by the way.
P: Do you think that bad people can become good?
L: Everything is possible but it's not likely. An anti-hero like Xena is created by writers. In real life something like that is much more complex.
P: Could you imagine yourself in a realistic drama?
L: I would love to have a role like that. But I don't think I'm ready for it yet. I think I can be a good comedienne. My favourite scenes are those with humor. Action and eroticism is fun too but let's be honest, people like to laugh
P: Your name really fits a comedy
L: I can't help it that my husband was called Lawless. And now it's too late to change back to my maiden name.
P: You got injured last year. Are you afraid for stunts now?
L: Sometimes. I have to add that I didn't break my pelvis while shooting Xena, it was at an American talk show. Our stunt team is very careful, it's almost impossible that something goes wrong . P: But injuries do happen don't they?
L: Not as often as you'd think. There are always actors that overestimate themselves or their condition. After 27 takes you could indeed tear a muscle.
P: How did you feel, in a wheel chair?
L: Sometimes I was in panic. I knew my hip would heal but then again... Take Christopher Reeves. I realized that life always hangs in the balance.
P: How did the producers solve your absence?
L: Hudson Leick, Callisto, and I had just shot an episode where we'd switched bodies. The writers just extended the story, so I could rehabilitate.
P: Is it true that you have a sword in your car?
L: A practise sword, yes. I have to practise a lot, to make the fight scenes look real. That's why I bring that sword with me. It has to become an extension of my arm.
P: Do you think you would stand a chance in a real fight?
L: I'm afraid that I know enough about sword fighting to make it look real. Nothing more. Stupid question. Do you ask if George Clooney brings his medical bag with him in his free time?
P: I did.
L: Really? What did he answer?
P: The same as you. He can put a bandage on a wound and that's about it.
L: I think it's funny when the audience looses all sense of reality. I'm not at all a woman who would breaks a man's skull just because he's trying to hit on her.
P: Take the hype surrounding popstars, of the influence of a tv show like Star Trek, what do you think about your growing group of fans?
L: People aren't going to work wearing a Xena breastplate yet.
P: Too bad. It would be good for the working moral.
L: You should know how terrible it is, wearing a thing like that. I prefer the original costume. First, it was much more exciting, second, it was nice to wear and third, at least I could breathe in it.
P: You evaded my question. Don't you think the cult surrounding your person isn't scary?
L: I think it's terrible that people start living a tv show, which is made for pure entertainment. Xena is an fictious person, who's there to sell washing powder to the audience. Tv is adventure, love and humour out of a box. Nothing more, nothing less. I pity people who think that Star Trek, the X-Files or Xena is their life.
P: Do you think that tv is pushing our society to the brink of destruction?
L: No. But I do think that our society is almost broke. That a show like Xena has become a religion to a lot of people shows in example that the church is failing.
P: The church?
L: Not only the church. I got a letter from a man in Missouri, who wrote that the scene, in which I'm sitting in a hot tub, together with Renee O'Connor, was the most erotic experience of his entire life. If this letter doesn't show the growing loneliness in our society, then what does?
P: In that scene one could see your nipples.
L: I have nipples. So what? That shouldn't be a reason for adult men to start behaving like teenagers. I think it's ridiculous.
P: Why are decrying men? There are many women who get fantasies when they see your nipples
L: That's true. A colleague of yours told me that they're organizing Warrior Princess nights in women prisons.
P: Do you have problems with lesbian fans?
L: I don't have problems with my fans. Be it sexually inexperienced kids or lesbians.
P: You said something different in earlier interviews
L: At the beginning I was really irritated with some of the extreme fan mail I got. A fan describing penetrating me with a cola bottle and how my cries of pain turn into cries of passion, that's way over the line as far as I'm concerned. Be it a male or a female fan.
P: To prepare myself for this interview I surfed the net, where I encountered many wild fantasies about Xena
L: Not to mention the pictures. It seems there are admirers that voice their love for me or Xena, by documenting and publishing each and every embarrassing moment of my life.
P: But you have got used to your lesbian and bi-sexual fans?
L: Yes. I don't care if a 14-year-old boy, or a 35-year-old housewife or a 55-year-old retired tradesman, declared his love for me. I wouldn't start an affair with anyone of them.. But if they dream about me, or Xena, I don't mind.
P: There are rumours on the internet that you're interested in women.
L: I think that many of my lesbian fans bring their own wish as rumour into the world. As long as I don't get harmed.
P: Is that why your PR people demand censorship when it comes to your love life?
L: I asked them to do that. I don't want people that I love to get hurt by your colleagues. I'm no princes Diana. I don't run away from it. I'd rather talk to the press, under my conditions, then be hunted around like some animal.
P: Okay, let's rephrase that question. Without saying any names. Could you imagine having an affair with a woman?
L: I can imagine a lot. But what part really happens and what not, that's something entirely different.
P: Have you ever, except in your role as Xena, had sexual affairs with women?
L: I guess this is a trick question. In Christina's Parker I played a truck driver, who had an affair with a Maori mother. I don't think that this movie makes me a lesbian. Just like playing Xena doesn't make me a murderer.
P: Yet this movie again and again appears at gay and lesbian festivals. Now people can admire the 20 minute long story on the video collection 'Women from Down Under'.
L: That way a few people make lots of money with a movie that became a collector's item because of my success.
P: It could've been worse. At my home 'Peach' stands only 10 inches away from the Stallone porn movie 'Italian stallion', Anne Heche's 'Wild Side' and Alyssa Milano's 'Embrace of the Vampire, which are even worse.
L: Do you have Stallone's porn video at home? Great! I know Alyssa Milano, but I haven't heard about her vampire movie.
P: It's one of those 3am cable movies
L: And Anne Heche, isn't she the girlfriend of
P: Ellen Degeneres. The erotic thriller with Cristopher Walken and Joan Chen would've gone unnoticed weren't it for Anne outing her relationship with Ellen. Smart,
L: That's not fair. You journalists jump on each and every actor that has a sex scandal and you keep writing about it for months. Even if an obscure movie reaches the audience because of the media hype, then those actors suddenly love the attention. Hypocrytical isn't it?
P: Do you have an explanation for the sudden interest for lesbians in the American culture?
L: It's the fashion. A few years ago transvestites and transsexuals were in the spotlight. Now it's the turn for the lesbians. I wouldn't think too much of it if I were you.
P: It is known that men get excited by (watching) lesbian couples. What do women think of gay erotic pictures or movies?
L: I can't speak for all women, even though Xena, according Ms. Magazine, should have to be an example for all women of all ages. I think erotic pictures, of men or women, are senseless.
P: You're evading my question again.
L: I told you I know how to handle journalists. But to answer your question; I don't get excited by gay erotic acts. And I don't know any women who have pictures like that hanging from their walls.
P: Men are obviously different. What's the reason?
L: I think that men are more easily stimulated, visually. Next to that, women are visually more attractive. The soft curves, the sensitive skin. We women just look better then the men. And I think that that's why men are, in their fantasies anyway, sexually interested in lesbian women, while gay couples don't have that effect on us women. In Xena's time sexuality wasn't a taboo. So that leaves a lot of room for the writers. I'm very happy that school children are among our audience. They haven't been programmed by society yet. If they take Xena as an example, then sexual prejudices could've disappeared with the next generation.
P: If we have to believe the San Francisco Chronicle today's kids want to be Chelsea Clinton, Tiger Woods or Xena.
L: Followed by Darth Vader and Michael Jordan. The Chronicle send me an issue. Third place, after Chelsea Clinton and Tiger Woods. If that isn't a sign of a coming apocalyps e. P: Do you think you could justify it, being an example like that?
L: Who says I would like to. I get lots of mail from churches, humanitarian groups and even from political parties, who'd all like to have me as their spokesperson.
P: Churches?
L: The United Witches of America invited me for their anual party on the Walpurgis night.
P: Did you go?
L: No. I'm too catholic for something like that.
P: Is Xena catholic? I hadn't expected that.
L: Xena isn't catholic but Lucy Lawless got a religious education. I'll have to carry my guilt for the rest of my life?
P: Why? I always thought that, with the Christian faith, it was all about forgiving?
L: Tell it to the Pope. As a little girl and as a teenager I always felt like I wasn't good enough.
P: Good enough for who?
L: For my parents, my brothers, my teachers and of course, the priests.
P: It's clear that you think differently nowadays. How did you find your self-respect?
L: That's not something that you just get. You have to conquer it. I grew up as the 5th of 7 children in Mount Albert, a suburb of Auckland, in New Zealand.
P: You quit your studies after a year
L: I studied languages and singing. But I found out that, if I wanted to reach something, I had to escape my surrounding. If the people around you keep pressuring you, if you think that you have to live by rules, and if you always lose, then there's only one way out.
P: You looked for a different game with different players.
L: A different playing field.
P: So you roamed the world.
L: I've been to Germany, Switzerland and Greece. I also spent some time in Australia. In Germany I again tried to to fulfill my dream of becoming an opera singer. But I found out that my talents laid elsewhere.
P: Back in Greece, did you learn something about mythology?
L: No. I was too busy getting a tan.
P: In Australia you dug for gold? Did you strike it rich?
L: Of course not. But I was looking for adventure. And I found it. I've exposed myself to dangers. I didn't conquer them all but I survived them.
P: You do sound like Xena
L: Not exactly. Xena destroys her enemies. I'm happy with surviving. And to become stronger by learning from my mistakes. And that way, become better then my enemies.
P: Did you have many enemies?
L: No, but there were many men and women who tried to control me. And because I didn't let them, they took it their anger out on me.
P: Well, there's people like that everywhere
L: You can say that again because when I returned I married one
P: You went to school with your ex-husband
L: We were an item back then. You know the type. Notes behind the teacher's back, exchanging looks and sharing a cigarette behind the gym
P: The first dance at the prom, the first kiss
L: I mistook teen romance for real love. When I returned from my journey and the chemistry between Garth and me returned I thought we were meant for each other.
P: Who's to blame for the failing of your marriage?
L: We both are. Because of the traveling I became some sort of cosmopolitan. I knew back then that I wanted, no, that I could be more then the wife of a bar owner.
P: In 1994 you debuted on television. One year later you were Xena. Do you have any advice for actresses that are studying for years on end without achieving anything?
L: I think it's very important that you look good. But that's not all there is. There are models and actresses that look better then I do. To win the audience a nice smile and a great chest aren't enough.
P: But what is? Your technique? Talent? Luck?
L: Personality. You either have it or you don't.
P: Actors like Al Pacino say that a talented actor can imitate personality.
L: Pacino can probably do it. So can Meryl Streep. And that's probably the difference between an actor and a star. I make a great living out of it, that people all over the world admire my character traits, independence and urge towards freedom. Exactly those traits that killed my study and my marriage. Life's strange don't you think?
P: During our first interview you refused to talk about your boyfriend Rob Tapert. You're engaged now and you talk about it again.
L: I hate to talk about my private life. I'd rather limit it to talking about my job.
P: I'm sorry but I just don't feel like asking you if Hercules has to do the dishes, if he and Xena marry.
L: It's obvious that you're not a Xena fan
P: My enthusiasm for American television is limited. But we were talking about your fiancee.
L: Rob's produced the Evil Dead movies, together with Sam Raimi. He's also done something for CBS, and The Legendary Journeys for Renaissance Pictures. The rest is history.
P: Where you don't like talking about
L: It wasn't love at first sight. Rob saw something in me no man had ever noticed before. He gave me the chance to be the person I am today.
P: Is that why you fell in love with him?
L: At first I tried to suppress my feelings. The star and the producer. That really is a cheap Hollywood cliche. P: But?
L: Rob is the most patient man I know. And one day I didn't see the reason anymore.
P: Do you have any wedding plans?
L: Wedding plans? I told you during our first interview that I'm probably never going to marry again. But I enjoy showing my emotions again. I've been single a long time. It's ver easy to hide one's emotions behing a large wall. If no one can reach you then they can't hurt you. Now I feel I should broaden my horizon, as a woman. My last marriage died an early dead.
P: Maybe you found the right one now
L: Maybe, but can't we change subject?
P: Okay, tell me about your ties to Broadway in New York.
L: I play Rizzo in the musical Grease. In August 1996 I sang in the talk show of Rosie O'Donnell. During our talk she mentioned her role in Grease. I was very interested. The producers got the tape of the show and two months later they offered me the role.
P: Do you like acting on stage?
L: I love it. I enjoy the contact with the audience. And when lesbian women groups are coming over from the entire country, to see me and cheer for me, I get a feeling I don't want to miss for the world. It was in New York that I found out what great fans I have. If you only look at the fanmail, you wouldn't know that.
P: You only have about 10 weeks vacation. Your colleague, Hercules, used that time to play in a movie (Kull the Conqueror). Wouldn't you have preferred something like that?
L: Of course, but then something entirely different. Hercules and Kull have too many simularities in my opinion.
P: I think that many fans would love to see an erotic thriller starring La Lawless.
L: I'd rather play a small but significant role in a good movie. A dramatic of comedic role. Any role in which I can get the most out of me. I still have lots of potential. The most important thing in my life is that I now have the chance to fulfill my dreams. I'm not going to loose that chance.
Interview by Robert Macher
Petra/Dutch