Con 08 Burbank RJ Stewart & Liz Friedman
Review by KTL
fsktl@uaf.edu
Con 08 Burbank RJ and Liz
But first! a few things. Lucy was talking about her appearance at the concert the night before and mentioned that she had used the pseudonym "Mrs. Tits Wobble" when she was in a hotel in Las Vegas recently. And how appropriate is that? When she was at that tech show thing, I guess.
AND we’re on vacation. While walking along the Sea of Cortez (as they call it in Mexico, the country in which it flows, unlike America, where we call it "The Gulf of Caifornia"), just after posting the Lucy report, the one where I started with rhapsodies over Lucy’s outfit and likened her to first a peacock, (though actually, it’s peahen, not peacock when female but how many of us would know then what the hell I was talking about if I’d written that), and then said she was "as leggy and as magnificent as a wild Great Blue Heron", guess what? I saw a wild Great Blue Heron standing on a dock. And it WAS way leggy but quiet and still and not very blue-unlike Luce. It also had a neck as long as its legs. Again unlike Luce. BUT – as I always say, man, do I LOVE coincidences. We’ve seen white herons just about every day, but this is the first blue one I’ve seen this year. Brought a big smile to my face. Niiiiiice.
I was beyond thrilled to hear that RJ was going to be at the con. RJ is my absolute favorite writer on the show-more than half of the 23 eps I consider excellent were written by him-13 hours in all. The ten others are shared among six other writers. To me this dude is WAY significant in the series.
So, "YAY! It’s RJ!"
And Liz! Liz always makes me howl with laughter—I always get a big feeling of anticipation whenever I see that Liz is going to be "chatting with us". Either on the DVD commentaries or in interviews. She’s got this dry, acerbic wit that just kills me. (It’s no surprise to me that Lucy said in a 1996 interview, "She's the first woman I've worshipped! I'd crawl 40 miles through broken glass just to wank off in her shadow!")
First thing, RJ says, "Thanks for coming to the writer’s strike". Thursday was Xena day at the writer’s strike picket line and a good number of fans along with staff and actors from XWP showed up and picketed. RJ, as do many of the Kiwis, began to take pictures of us. (You know, I can’t remember if Lucy ever did this-but just about every other Kiwi has in the past. They always tell us a version of, "They’ll never believe this at home.")
As he was taking the pictures, Liz said, "That’s why they paid—to see you take pictures."
First comment was a fan talking about FIN. She didn’t like that Xena stayed dead. I think she talked about Rob saying that RJ was adamant about Xena staying dead to save those souls in FIN. And the fan wanted to argue against that view. I seem to remember that they went back and forth a bit. RJ would say something while she continued to press her dissatisfaction with the ending. Finally, RJ said that Xena was mythology. And great myths end in tragedy. He said a lot and I only have a few words jotted down. "Violence, live by the sword." "Complete the story". And he felt that great sacrifice completed Xena’s quest.
Liz turned to him and said very perkily, "That said, check your car for explosives before you drive away."
RJ added that when we first saw Xena, she was burying her armor. "She was so torn and tormented. This was a real person for me. Why would she become good? It was a major…(transformation or conversion I think he probably said)-what I have written is "transversion." (Thank the gods it wasn’t transvestite-that’d would a bummer after all these years of all of us celebrating a female warrior hero, eh?)
"The whole series was about Xena’s sacrifice for others. For her friends, her beloved Gabrielle-the world at large."
Liz was asked how she felt about Hudson having played her in the Hercules episode, "Yes, Virginia, There Is A Hercules". Liz said that she fidgets and I think she said that she’d always thought nobody noticed she fidgets, but that there she was fidgeting on national TV. And, "I got to look like Hudson Leick." She said about the character, "I’m like that, but not so good-looking."
RJ was asked how in "Crusader", Xena was able to kill the whole army quietly. RJ answered. "She’s so good. She’s a very efficient killer."
A fan asked one of the best questions I’ve ever heard. "Why was Xena and Gabrielle so magical?" She asked why don’t other shows featuring lesbians have the massive following and things like cons going for them?
The reason I think this is such a good question is that to me this speaks to the greater con phenomenon for all fans also-which absolutely fascinates me. Why is it only the sci-fi/fantasy genre that gets such dedicated followers? "Friends" was huge. "Seinfeld" was huge. "The Sopranos" was huge. Yet none of these more mainstream hits, shows with FAR greater ratings than Xena ever had, have created such intense interest and loyalty. Interest and loyalty that you can measure specifically, in terms of still supporting the show seven years after it’s off the air by literally paying the actors and staff to come and visit with us. We can’t just let them go and be satisfied with memories and DVD sets. And, fans of this genre also form communities that are very important to many of us. Why? What is it about this genre that creates such devotion? I wonder about this all the time. I also ask other fans about it and no one has been able to pin it down-why it’s just the "cult" shows that generate this never ending interest. (Including even the huge "cult" shows that are totally mainstream like the Star Trek franchise which, because it’s so mainstream, should actually preclude them being a "cult" show by definition.)
Getting back to the actual question, Liz replied to the fan, "Have you watched "The L Word?" There were "Yeah"s drifting in from around the room. Liz: "I can’t stop watching ‘The L Word’-but it’s awful." She said it was very poorly written. Then she added, "I’m implicating myself here. "The Cashmere Mafia" sucked us in with the pilot." And then in the next episode, she said they had her go back to guys, something along those lines.
Liz: (Now whenever Liz talks, you have to imagine hearing what she says spoken with a still thick New York accent-adds to the ambience. I tried to check on-line on where Liz was born but couldn’t find it. But that sure sounds like a NY, or certainly at least a big city East Coast accent to me. . .) "The thing about Xena—it was a really good show." One of them said, "Dan Fille said, ‘They don’t have to be this good, RJ.’" (Dan Fille was the Senior Vice President of First Run Programming for Universal Television Group during XWP’s early days.)
Liz: "We killed ourselves trying to make good shows." She said something about "Two actresses", not sure if she was talking about trying to kill them with the predicaments they put them into or if she was just saying they made the show better. Liz added something about you could do anything you wanted, "As long as you kicked someone in the head."
A fan asked if Liz was disappointed that the grrls had never really kissed. Liz replied, "I’m not personally". RJ added, "Steve is" and looked at Steve taking pictures from the floor and smiled. Liz added, "Deeply". Then she said, "I think we did what was right for the show."
A fan asked about the supposedly shot-but-never-aired ep where Xena meets "Alexander the Great". In a DVD, RJ and Producer Eric Grundemann expressed sorrow that they’d never been able to show that one. RJ told us that this was just a practical joke that Eric had thought up to say, (just to tease us, I guess). He had talked RJ into it, saying that once RJ brought it up, he, Eric, would run with it. RJ said he did bring it up but Eric never embellished it like he was supposed to. (So it’s been lying there in the DVDs fooling some folks ever since.)
A fan gave Liz kudos for being the only out member of the crew. Liz: "The only out one? As opposed to the hundreds of others closeted people (on the show)?" And then she looked down at Steve Sears and said rather pointedly, "Steeeeve" Then she added, "Forgive me-I mock because I love."
"It was never an issue at Renaissance. Rob tells a story about my first day on the job, showing up in a leather jacket with a big "Queer Nation" sticker on the back. It was my first job after college."
Liz: "*I* was the one that said no way will anybody think that Xena and Gabrielle are gay. (Pause.) What did I know?" Lots of hoots and applause on that one.
Steve has talked about this in the past-how he warned everybody that the grrls would be seen as gay because same-sex partners always are. And they all laughed at the very idea. . .
RJ to Liz: At first it made you uncomfortable. (The next few words in my notebook look like, "Where will go" or "Where we’re go")
Liz said something like that she was afraid of how the suits would react-what they would do. But eventually they just went ahead and ran with it.
A fan asked if it was true that Liz wrote the disclaimers for the eps. Liz said yeah, that they were the best creation she ever had.
RJ added, "Best writing".
Fan: How early did you decide to resolve the rift in a musical ep?
RJ. "Very early on."
I think it’s possible a fan thanked RJ for creating Callisto.
RJ: "Hudson was perfect as Callisto." Liz: "She came in and scared the hell out of us." RJ: "And not the way some actor do-she did it through her character."
Liz told us (as Hudson has) how they were doing the auditions and Hudson came in and perhaps they asked her to sit down. And instead she said, "Yes-who is everybody?" She went around the room and shook everyone’s hand and made them identify themselves. "She made eye contact with everyone. Okay-you’re hired!"
RJ said something about a campfire scene. He said Gabrielle had a quest-she left home searching for herself. And this was a way for the show to get into comparative religions. He talked about that for a bit and Liz intruded with, "It’s riveting."
RJ talked about "Evil Xena. She was the first evil hero".
Liz talked about the relationship between Xena and Gabrielle. "Stuff bounced between the two of them. Very "bantery" scenes and then the heartfelt stuff. Set up the moment and then let Xena and Gabrielle play it out."
A fan said that Gabrielle was the most changed. RJ looked at her for a minute and then said, "Both characters were alive for me." Then I have written down, "Like Steve Gab." Not sure if this meant he said he "Liked Steve’s Gabrielle" or if this meant Steve liked Gabrielle. "Evolving-we weren’t sure where she was going."
RJ: "The Xena/Gabrielle relationship was obvious in the first episode. The revelation o f their relationship went on all through the series. Their relationship could power stories though the whole series." (Now why is it that other producers don’t understand that the relationship between two women is very powerful stuff indeed?)
It’s possible a fan asked if there were any eps he’d wished they’d done.
RJ: "I liked the Plato one. It was Rob’s idea-the metaphor of the cave, shadow on the wall. We didn’t know how to do that. We couldn’t get past the problem that Socrates dies."
He said that he and also Rob I think, read Robert Graves’ myths. They "wanted to do Iphigenia-but what? Xena kills her father?"
A fan said that they were all acting as if Xena was magical, a once in a lifetime thing. Why weren’t they doing something like it again.
RJ restated it, "Why are we too lazy to go out and do it again? Rob and I are talking about doing something now in a similar fashion." (Great news! But where would they find another Lucy to play in it? It’d be WAY tough to find someone as magical as she was as Xena.)
Liz: "There was great luck of fate. Had Vanessa taken it, (Vanessa Angel was an early choice to play Xena), had "Vanishing Sun" not been cancelled-the accidents that had to happen for the show to happen. It was like a miracle".
Fan: Was Gabrielle meant to be a warrior?
RJ: "In a perfect world, there could be a less violent way for it to play out." Then I have written down, "Renee just kind of stands there." I’m thinking this is in reference to if they hadn’t made her a warrior, but it doesn’t ring a bell at all. RJ added, "And she was a fabulous warrior."
My next sentence is "50 scenes where Xena and Gabrielle nailed it." Someone said this, but I’m not sure who-don’t think it was a question. I think RJ said it, talking about his favorite scenes. He chose as his favorite, "Ides of March. And the campfire scene in Callisto."
Liz says, "The campfire scene in Callisto and the ending of "Many Happy Returns." (One of three eps Liz wrote or provided the story for.)
And that’s the end.
Wait-it’s NOT the end. Though they were not scheduled to sign stuff for us, Creation announced that they had decided to do this for us. Which was really cool-I don’t worry so much about getting autographs, but I do like to thank people who have worked so hard to create this fantastic show that I love so much.
So I told RJ two things-one that The Debt was my favorite ep and two that not everyone hates FIN, that lots of us think it was an excellent ending-but those who do hate it are way more vocal about it.
He thanked me for both statements. (And probably assumed I’m not on any Xena lists so how would I know?)
Let’s see-I thanked Liz for all her work on the show and for Many Happy Returns, which is one of my favorite comedies. I consider the comedies of season six as prime on the whole. Being an honest soul, I couldn’t praise Helicon which to me is one of those so bad it’s good horrors. So I just didn’t bring it up. And I forgot at the time that she’d done the story for A Family Affair.
There was laughter all through their appearance. But I see in reading my notes that I don’t have as much fan reaction as I do when Lucy and/or Renee are onstage. Either there was less fan reaction or I was more absorbed in what RJ and Liz were saying. They haven’t been on at cons all that much, so a number of the questions were new. And also, oddly enough, no one asked for a hug, no one told these writers how their character had changed their lives and no one brought up any photos of RJ or Liz babysitting children. (NOTE: I thought that was cool actually-how strange is that for that guy and his kids-that Lucy was their babysitter. Grin. It’s a glimpse into things I would never have thought about regarding a star’s life. That some folks have very ordinary memories of them. I guess I just don’t think about the lives of stars very much. I wonder too about that guy showing up-did he come here JUST for the con? Or was he here or going to be here anyway and decided to drop in and say "Hi!")
People’s lives are made up of endless variations-the bare, brutal facts are the same for everyone-but everyone’s details are different. And fascinating. Even the mundane ones, like what happens to your baby sitter when she’s all grown up.
KT
